Q&A: Judah Smith

Tell us about your book, ‘Jesus is…’

JS It’s about creating a dialogue. Christians have been really famous for monologues but not so much dialogues. The space [in the title] is intentional and meaningful. I’m trying to, in my own way, create space and room for people to share their feelings on, the most formidable person who ever lived. We know who he says he is, and I, in a couple of hundred pages fill in the blank with how I see it, but the point is to provoke others, to say: ‘How would you fill in this blank?’ For me, Jesus is more than a historical figure or someone to have a conversation about, he’s someone who’s transformed me and given me a brand new way of existing. I want everyone to experience that and the book just tries to open up that dialogue.

Is the focus on a compelling character a deliberate choice in a culture where the stories revolve around compelling characters?

JS My take on scripture is that it’s not a compilation of moral concepts, principals or ideals; it’s a story of love. And the main character of the story is Jesus, beginning in Genesis all the way through to Revelation – it’s about a person. So my book is trying to take its cues from that. That’s when the Bible makes sense – when you realise that it’s a love story between God, revealed in Jesus, and humanity.

How important, in culture, are those role models and characters?

JS We’re definitely in need of role models. The best form of discipleship and leadership comes from doing life together – allowing people to see, watch and be involved in your life. The problem is that we have a human propensity to want heroes; larger than life figures. You see this with Hollywood’s affinity to heroic characters right now and the renaissance for comic book characters – we as humans want heroes. And that is exciting, it reveals our desire for a saviour somewhere within the psyche of mankind. But it can become very misleading and disillusioning when the people we set up as heroes and even saviours fail us, because they will. And then when they falter we almost find some sadistic pleasure out of bringing them down – it shows part of the human condition.

You quote stand-up comedians in your book – is this a deliberate attempt to redeem culture, or do you just find them funny?

JS I like the word redeem. Part of our job is the redemption of the planet – even creation, art and entertainment. I wonder sometimes if the Church is called less to be a counter-culture, but to be the best culture – the best of the art etc. I think culture is to be enjoyed; God gives us richly all things to enjoy, the scripture says. I think stand-up comedians are some of the best communicators in the world – I went to a show on Saturday night – that was my sermon prep. Obviously there are some guidelines but I think Christians need to do a far better job of having fun. I think faith would be far more appealing if we added a lot more fun and a lot less seriousness, and maybe that’s the brilliance of youth ministry because you can actually have fun and you don’t get questioned – in fact, you get admired.

What are the pressures and difficulties of pastoring someone as high profile as Justin Bieber, where everything he does is in the public eye?

JS It’s probably one of the more honest pastoral relationships because it’s all out there, and so you know what you’re working with. I love him, I believe in him, and there are a lot of similarities between him and the hundreds of students I’ve pastored over the years. More than anything I’m there to encourage him, to help him process the challenges that he’s facing and to study scripture. I will say this though - I’m glad that paparazzi didn’t care to take photos of me when I was 19. I don’t keep track of a lot of [the stuff in the papers]; it’s not critical to what I’m doing. I’m focusing more on a person and loving him – I try to steer clear of a lot of that peripheral stuff that comes along with his stardom and really just try to ask how he’s doing. The gospel works no matter who you are – the love of God is the most powerful force in the universe whether you’re Justin Bieber or Justin Jones. I find it fascinating that people criticise me or anyone who hangs out with prominent figures who have failed in the public eye, as if I’m doing something wrong by hanging out with them. One of the greatest criticisms I’ve ever received, and one that is a real encouragement that I must be doing something right, is that I’m friends with bad people. I think that was one of the criticisms of Jesus, so I consider it a really high privilege to be criticised for befriending, loving and caring for people who have made mistakes, and in some cases publically.

You also pastor one of the top golfers in the world (Bubba Watson) - what is it about you that attracts these global megastars?

JS I don’t want to make it incredibly spiritual, but Paul talks of a sphere, a circle of influence, and that God ordains or directs your sphere. For whatever reason these particular people have been included in my sphere and my job is just to be a good steward of the sphere that God has given me. That puts all of us at ease to know that God’s grace includes our sphere and not to strive to increase your influence. I’ve never strived to be a pastor or friend to celebrities. My encouragement to young people, youth pastors, and pastors of any kind is to be content with what God has given you. We all have aspirations to grow and do what God wants us to do, but the key is to live within the sphere that God has granted you. Whether it’s Justin, Bubba or anything else it’s just somewhere God has opened up a door and I’ve walked through it. Leadership is all about adding value to others and my passion is to add value to Justin, Bubba and many others. I recognise that influence is just a vehicle to add value to more people, to encourage more people and to make Jesus a big deal. When I keep that central, the influence isn’t that crushing. But when I make the influence about me and my brand, then it becomes very self-destructive.

What was it like taking over your Dad’s church?

JS I felt like I got tricked into it. I’m happy to pastor young people but older people are complicated and traumatic. So I felt a lot of pressure – after nine months I felt I was all out of material. Some days it would be like – ‘Ok what’s the deal circus boy, entertain us, make us laugh, provoke us’, and it felt like I had nothing. And that’s where either the gospel works or it doesn’t - you’re in front of one of the most educated, informed and Biblically literate communities in America, and they don’t want a cute, fun little message – they want substance. And I realised that all I had was the gospel. I know that sounds like I should have figured it out a long time ago – but I had to decide: ‘Ok, I’m going to lead this church and I’m going to leverage it on the gospel.’ So if the gospel doesn’t work, this church isn’t going to work. If the gospel doesn’t work, my marriage isn’t going to work. If the gospel doesn’t work, my kids aren’t going to work. And as a result there seems to be growth and excitement and enthusiasm – we’re a church that just shows people who Jesus is and people keep showing up. The church trusts me, but they really trust the man who raised me, and that’s the beauty of that generational blessing where there’s already established equity, because leadership is all trust. Trust, not money, is the commerce of leadership.

How important is consistency? You’re leading a church where you were youth pastor for ten years - has that helped?

JS I can’t overstate the importance of it. I think God is into planting and that seems very apparent even in Genesis – God wants us to be faithful and consistent. God does move people between different places, communities and places of worship, but I think if at all possible – stay in one place for the long haul. If we’re really trying to influence cities, countries and the planet then we need missionaries who are committed to staying in one place for the long haul. That maybe isn’t sexy or sensational but it’s a necessity for us to be effective in sharing the message of Jesus. It takes time to gain trust in a community – it might take a decade or so to gain access to certain sub-cultures in your community and to let them know that you’re authentic and genuine, and not here today, gone tomorrow.

What did you learn from ten years of youth work?

JS It’s far easier and cleaner to use rules, regulation and legalism to get results than it is to let the gospel transform people’s lives. Youth ministry can be challenging because I can almost impose my will on young people because they’re more impressionable, and I found I would do that. If you’ve got a bit of a personality and are cool you can show and tell them what to do. But sometimes I took shortcuts with the gospel. The gospel is a message of the heart and very internal, and sometimes what’s internal can take time to become external. And I think I learnt that the hard way, and now dealing with adults, you can’t impose your will in the same way – and so it comes back to the gospel either working or not working. But I have noticed that the gospel does not work on my timetable. I want instantaneous results – improvements in marriage, improvements in lost neighbours and friends, but it is often a long and laborious process and normally messy. At the same time – they say once a youth pastor always a youth pastor, so I still get to hang out with young people, and, don’t tell anybody this, but I still preach almost the same way I did as a youth pastor and everyone seems to enjoy it.

If you had to answer ‘Jesus is…’ in one word, what would it be?

JS Grace.